tv NOW With Alex Wagner MSNBC September 27, 2013 12:00pm-1:00pm EDT
ted cruz on the floor. the senate expected to take a series of votes to extend funding. after cruz and his band of merry pranksters blocked progress last night. this did not please members of his own party. what could be the most passive aggressive fight on the senate floor, fellow republican senator bob corker took cruz to task. >> i don't think ever in the history of the senate have we had a 21-hour filibuster, and then the persons carrying out the filibuster voted for the issue they were filibustering. >> why is majority leader harry reid voting the way you're proposing to vote? why is every democrat in the chamber voting the way you propose to vote. >> you voted in favor of the thing you're filibuster and senator harry reid joined you in that, too. it seems to me they are very similar. >> meanwhile inside the bag of blindfolded hungry weasels,
dosed with pcp to quote rachel maddow gop leaders bankruptly abandoned the strategy they had announced hours earlier to avoid a government shutdown. the plan was to pass a debt ceiling bill that included everything from gutting wall street reform to undoing environmental regulations as well as what white house press secretary jay carney said yesterday. the only thing i didn't see mentioned was a birther bill. even this did not satisfy about two dozen of the most extreme members of john boehner's house of crazy cards who want to duke it out over the looming shutdown before moving on to the catastrophic debt ceiling. with the house party caucus unable to support anything less than deporting the president to kenya in exchange for paying bills, a government shutdown appears more and more likely. as political rights, nobody, not even those in charge, know how the budget battle will end or if it will end.
or perhaps nancy pelosi described the republican plan best. >> i don't know that they even know what they are doing. >> joining me today the chairman of the slate group jacob wiseberg, senior congressional reporter and washington bureau chief at the "huffington post" ryan grim. nbc news capitol hill correspondent luke russert. luke, it falls to you to explain what is happening and what will happen next. give us a time line of how things will roll out today. >> well, what is happening is that no one knows exactly what is happening, joy. here is sort of an idea that we have. boehner is boxed in. aides admit that, republican aides admit that. he's in a difficult decision because of the house gop conference unwilling to support the bill with every gop goody you can imagine inside it. here are the three ops options boehner has regarding government funding. he can do a clean extension of government funding once it comes over from the senate.
i asked him if he would do that. he said i don't see that happening. so presumably that won't happen. number two, he could attach something to it, something republicans like, perhaps getting rid of a tax on medical license, perhaps topping government payments to the employees of members of congress for their health benefits, something like that. this senate democrats want to move on that. if you do a tax, something like that, that would most likely lead to a few days of a shutdown. that's another option. the last option is to simply continue government funding for a week or two weeks. if you do that, no one knows when that will end. that simply buys more time to see if there's a magical solution that appears out of thin air. to be honest with you, joy, no one knows how this is going to end right now. i would say option c seems to be getting the most traction but then we bring the government funding issue and it becomes tied directly with the des limit setting up another fiscal cliff in the middle of october. unless john boehner says no to
that tea party element and says i'm going to go with democratic support, there really is no feasible way forward. from talking to aides, they say, you have to remember, the house gop conference, 94 of these guys come from mitt romney's 60% plus district. they don't care. they are more than happy to see the government shutdown if it includes the president's health care law, they are more than happy to default. they don't want to raise the debt limit under any circumstances. so this blocking minority has taken over the house gop conference and really boxed in the speaker, boxed in eric cantor, mccarthy. the gop leadership is up against a wall and no one sees their way to escape from where we stand here on friday. something could happen over the weekend. they have a meeting tomorrow to try to figure out a way forward but there seems to be no viable options from where we stand. >> you say there's 94 from the districts who don't care. is it 94 or really sort of the dirty dozen, dozen or so guys
dug in. if it's only a dozen, couldn't boehner get something through without violating the hastert rule where it has to be majority of the majority. >> here is the thing, 94 is the depth of how difference this conference is. if you talked about the chuckle heads as they were called during the fiscal cliff shutdown, that's probably in the neighborhood of 15 to 25 depending where you are. the issue lets say you kind of move past them and try not to violate the hastert rule, what does that? is it the medical device tax you do? stopping the government's contributions to employee benefits? if you do that and attach it, it adds to a delay when it goes back to the senate leading to a shutdown of a few days. senator reid is grabbing senators out of there. they are going home. democrats sitting back watching gop conference go up in flames loving it. they are not going to throw a life raft out. no way forward.
>> this is insane. on the use of chuckleheads, i have to turn to the panel. that demands a response. ryan, this sounds crazy, right? to anyone watching it sounds overly complicated. at the end of the day the three scenarios luke laid out don't sound like they solve the basis fundamental concern. they don't want a device on medical taxes repealed they want the entire medical appealed. >> the base will not be satisfied. luke laid it out well. lets follow the logic here. it's not what republicans are going to do, it's when they are going to do it. we already know what they are going to do. they are going to cave to democrats. boehner is going to have to use democrats to pass basically a clean cr, maybe some tiny little thing attached to it. the only question to me is whether that happens before the government shuts down or after the government shuts down. there's no planet on which they are getting this laundry list of ransom demands through. >> they are not going to deport
president obama. the thing that's frustrating to a lot of people is what ryan said. everyone understand they are going to have to shut down cr, even if it shuts down for a week or two days. they eventually have to do it. then it starts again. >> speaker boehner is locked in right now with imposing the hastert rule. the hastert rule in this case means not just the majority of the majority but every vote from the majority. because in reality the divide is so wide between what conservatives in the conference want and what democrats want. we're leading into a situation where the speaking is trying every possible strategy to placate members, hold them back to keep the government funded and likely to avert default as well. right now they are coming up empty. >> does it help at all to roll it back from december to november? these seem like cosmetic changes, recalcitrant party leading a crazy base. >> look, the monkeys are running republican zoo.
to the zoo keepers it's a tragedy. to everyone else it's increasingly a comedy. we sort of know john boehner is going to get them back in their cage and they are going to have to go along. they could do some real damage before that happens. there's sort of nothing else anybody can do about it. >> it's a comedy except if you're getting services that would be curtailed. a comedy unless you work at national parks and museums and end up getting furloughed. it's a comedy to watch them bang into each other like crazy people but this could affect real people and the debt ceiling could affect the economy. >> the question now is how much harm are they going to do to the country and economy. they are already doing harm. you see the stock market is shedding value. the irony is republicans are offering wall street and corporate america all these goodies in their debt ceiling package. wall street and corporate america are like just lift the debt ceiling. we appreciate you thinking about us here with all these carve outs and giveaways but just
raise the debt ceiling. we're losing billions a day as the stock market continue to slide. then if the government shuts down, there will be that much more damage. not only people hurt, market further, people's 401(k) plummets more, then the debt ceiling hostage, we've never been there. >> the stept to which it seems wall street and corporate money lost control of the republican party, their influence is levered or reduced because you have independent donors, right wing donors who want the ideology and provide an alternative set of money. >> the business community used to be and that's completely changed with tea party and outside groups, well funded, well organized conservative groups, the base, more anxious and worried and concerned about the state of the country, in, than they have been in any of our lifetimes. they are the ones now calling
the shots in the party because of the house majority, they have majority in gerrymander district. they want dodd/frank but immigration reform and they aren't giving them that. that's one example. the other thing to keep in mind here, it's one thing to look at this whole circus and laugh and see the civil war and say this is really bad for them. on the other hand there is sort of a weird strategic soundness to boehner's strategy. it seems like on a tactical level he's failing and his decisions are moment to moment. at the he said of the day he's good at using ideological intransigence and his weak speaker to demand policy reforms. democrats agreed to spending at austerity, sequestration levels for the time at least. everyone focusing on obama care. republicans have won what really matters and that's spending.
>> luke i have to come back to you on that note. i don't think i've heard anybody say john boehner is good at anything. i have to come back to you. for members is there a perception john boehner can win by losing, has he a method to his weak madness. number two, what is your sense of who has got the ear of the people. the business community or independent funders? >> as for boehner, someone i covered extensively over the last few years, his entire strategy always let the hot air out. he lets these guys scream and yell, make him appear to be weak, lets the media write stories, john boehner, chaotic caucus, no idea what they are going to do. in this case they do not know what they are going to do. what he said was true. at the end of the day it allows him to go so far to the right to say to the democrats, look, this is all i can get from these people. you better take this or else we're in a serious situation. look back to 2011 when the debt limit showdown we had there and boehner, went to the last minute and boehner said, hey, i got 90%
of what i wanted. that was basically based on strategy of letting hot air out. the second question, which is important, business community hasn't called shots in the republican conference. that's a big deal, a huge story. heritage action, senate conservatives fund, club for growth, those are the groups that have the real power in the house gop conference because they have these guys, 30 or 40 of them, so tightly wound you can't get anything by them. those guys, if heritage comes out and say oppose something you're going to have a problem through the gop conference. >> that is the most important point at all. thank you, nbc's luke russert. >> the senate set to vote on the house government extension in the hour. we're monitoring now and we'll bring you developments as we get them. first, all aboard the cruz-y train. it's easy to say he launched his campaign for the white house with a 21-hour campaign speech. but in reality they began the bid long ago.
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the reason we're waiting is y'all have sent out releases and e-mails and you want everybody to be able to watch and it just doesn't seem to me that that's in our nation's interest, nor is it candidly in the interest of those who want to see good policy on the conservative side. >> accusing ted cruz of being a show horse may be like pointing out the world is round. rival senator bob corker may
have been onto something about rafael ted cruz. our friend may be busy running for president in 2016 but also raising mountains of cash for senate conservative fund and cause of the moment, don't fund obama care. jim demint left to become president of heritage foundation saying he could have more influence outside the chamber. raking in bucks with its anti-obama care message. "daily beast" reports, the month of august, typically a snooze for d.c.-based fundraisers yielded the scf's largest nonelection year fundraising month to date at $1.5 million. as the article notes defund, inc., ted cruz is the figurehead is a profitable market for today. the sits on don't fund obama care.com constitute a gold mine that can be tapped again and again and again.
quote, while a list may just be a roster in some circles, in the parlance of power and politics a list is nothing less than a war chest in waiting. it also allows cruz to join the inexhaustible cottage industry of books, news letters, subscription websites bankrolled right wing candidates and politicians and media gurus like rush limbaugh and glenn beck. beck in particular uses cruz-like rhetoric to amass an $85 million fortune. >> they are terrified about ted cruz. terrified. anybody who listened to him, they saw exactly how smart he is, how stable he is, how cogent he is, how together he is. >> is the strategy a long-term
winner for cruz? he could have made millions with crazy filibuster, ran one headline, as another countered cruz's filibuster could have cost him millions. back to the panel, i want to start with something molly wrote in the atlantic about this new reality for the right. the fall of the heritage foundation and death of republican ideas. outside groups like heritage have gained strength because they feed grassroots hunger for true conservatism. from 2003 to 2007, our donner base, this is holler, went from 200,000 to 600,000. folks tell us i stopped giving to rnc. the goal is to push as far right as possible. we were talking about this a little in the last block. isn't this the new reality. right has its own independent donner base to support its right wing fringe. >> this is true. this happened before. to me the historical comparison
is 1964 when republicans were n incensed about medicare. they knew once it happened they would never take it away. you heard parallel things about the death of freedom, end of america from ronald reagan, bob dole, people who then gave up on that deal once medicare was the law of the land. also in 1964 republicans nominated barry goldwater. he was an extremist, mainstream of the party, money supported nelson rockefellers, moderate republicans that worked with the other side and establishment lost control. the result was the modern low percentage of the vote republicans have ever gotten. so i think the kind of worse case scenario for them is something happens. the monkeys stay in control of the zoo and get control of the presidential nominating process. they nominate someone who can't win but lose by a margin that will do harm to the party.
>> to stick with historical analogy, what happened is they realized they had this problem, consensus candidate, somebody who could marshall right wing base but sound plausible to people in the middle and eventually got to ronald reagan who started off in the '60s but eventually became their broad-based candidate. is there anyone that you can see on the horizon that could do that for republicans now or are they just going to be in this vacuum for a while? >> i think the nag now -- remember, four years later nixon won the presidential election. it's not that spent the next couple decades in the wilderness. maybe chris christie is the nixon. nixon talked very tough, was a law and order guy, which you can feel some parallel there with christie but moderate compared to goldwater crowd. no one questioned nixon because he was such a communist hard-liner. he came in and did epa and
things like that. maybe you have something like christie while at the same time that far right movement was developing itself. you know, getting itself elected but developing itself, 1980 first out with ronald reagan actually winning. >> to that point lets look at the people on the radar now for 2016 and looking at who is raising money in this environment. if you look, look at the outside game first, ted cruz and rand paul. rand paul is inside outside, a little bit of a hybrid. ted cruz in the last quarter, he raised $313,000 and that's his jobs for opportunity fund. ted cruz for senate pac raised $1.2 million. you've got rand paul just under a million, $970, rand paul for senate 2016 for re-election. inside candidates, post romney establishment guys. you've got marco rubio, favorite of former romney donors, $1.8 million for reclaim america pac,
$943,000 for his senate re-election pac and chris christie who raised the most by far, $12.3 million for election. that's both in the primary and general. if you just look at the money, is it the case madcap as the base is now, as much as they have their grip on the house, when it comes to 2016 the establishment will roar back. the most establishment guy out of this group is christie. he's got the money right now. >> the establishment has always won when it comes to republican primaries and presidential elections. you look back to last several elections, even 2012, a very tea party year for elections, nominated nontea party guy, even though he had to say all sorts of things to get there. 2008 relative moderate. election cycles, republicans tend to pick the guy most likely to win in a general election. it is true we're leading to a place outside conservative groups are growing in power. we're getting to a point we call the shots in the way
establishment republicans are losing out on. we could see another goldwater scenario. it's also a little early to know what the fundraising totals will be for these guys. so much can happen between now and then. >> the other difference from the old days there is no republican establishment anymore. there's big republican money, the koch brothers supporting the tea party. the idea there's elder statesmen, nelson rockefellers, wall street banker, i don't think that exists in the same form anymore. i think congressional leadership has very limited capacity to exert control over -- the idea of establishment out of date. >> democratization of fundraising, the billionaire who pace -- talk more about the republican variety show, real comic players, we'll hear from two of "saturday night live"
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let them vote. pass a clean bill to avert a shutdown. defy the anarchists, respect the law and we are monitoring the senate floor where majority leader harry reid is speaking right now. senate expected to hold a closer vote to fund the government in minutes. we'll bring you that when it begins. alex wagner is on assignment today but earlier she sat down with two stars of "saturday night live" ahead of tomorrow's season premier. >> this weekend "saturday night live," which has now won more emmys than any other series ever in the history of time is back for its 39th season with half a dozen new cast members, musical guest arcade fire and snl alum tina fey as guest host. that all sounds pretty good after such a slow summer of
news, what material could the cast members possibly have to use? joining me are snl cast members kate mckennin and bobby moynihan. thanks for joining me. >> how are you? thanks for having us. >> i will say because of the magic of television right now you're at 30 rock plaza and i'm in front of the brooklyn bridge. >> how could it be. >> we're in cleveland, this is all fake. >> made to look like rockefeller center. kate, i want to start with you. you have played a variety of characters on snl running from ann romney to ruth ginsburg, penelope cruz all of ham look and sound identically. it can't be much of a stretch but i'm going to ask you this question nonetheless. how do you get into rolls like that? do you study television and
c-sp c-span a lot to get the mannerism. >> i studied youtube. i don't know how anyone did a sketch show before youtube. you need to do research and it's all there. if i need to do an impression of someone i watch videos over and over and over until i have them in my head. >> i like to think of the romney family as comic gold. i wonder if there was one particular romney moment that stuck out to you that was informative as you sketched together how you would play your character, her character. >> there were so many. i watched everything she did. she just struck me as so -- she was like lighthearted and kind of a party girl to me. i just wanted to bring florida out in her. they were making fun of them for being stuck up and having horses and stuff. she really -- there was a lightness to her i really enjoyed. i loved her as a woman and i loved playing her.
>> a fizzyness, ann romney physicalyness. >> you played kim jong-un, obnoxious microphone guy. >> my two favorite characters. >> is there any thought about a ted cruz character coming into the season of "saturday night live" and could you play ted cruz? >> i'm sure i could. virgin island to look. i would have to have someone explain all of politics to me. >> or not. ted cruz is outside all governance and politics. he just happens to be a senator. >> i'm sure it will happen at some point. i have to brush up on it a little bit. >> that brings me to a point i've long wondered. kate says you studied youtube. we at msnbc are particularly animated by what's going on in the political world and think the current republican crisis is awful but also on a certain level is hilarious.
i wonder to people in comedy, actual comics is what's happening on the national stage funny or just totally depressing to you guys? >> i will be honest, i'm not a very political guy. i'll see seth looking at stuff to write for update. seth is such a prolific writer for the political stuff. i think he has very strong opinions about it. i wish i was smart enough to have the same opinions as seth. i'm not a very political guy. i tend to just try and write crazy business and hope for the bess. >> it's a form of mental preservation maybe not to engage in what's going on with politics. >> yeah. >> kate, you guys have new cast members and certain figures in the national news continue to be figures in the national news so inherent rolls. john boehner bill hader, mitt romney by jason sudeikis, joe biden by sudeikis.
how does the bidding process work for who is going to take over to play barack obama or joe biden or nancy pelosi when a cast member leaves. >> a lot of scratching of eyes, clawing, screaming. it's done by lottery and one person is killed. >> that ironically, kate, sounds like how things work out in congress. thanks so much for your time. we'll watch excitedly saturday night. >> you know you'll watch. after the break a critical new report finds, wait for it, humans are overwhelmingly responsible for climate change. go figure. now, if only scientific facts could convince deniers. we'll debunk when michael joins us on "now." you really love, what would you do?"
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the senate is voting right now on the government funding extension that was passed in the house. if this vote to end the bill passes with at least 60 senators, majority leader harry reid is then expected to strip the provision that defunds obama care before a final vote on passage. at that point he would need just 51 votes to pass the government funding extension, which would include funding for obama care, if that's not complicated enough. all right. unequivocal, that's the word the world's top climate scientists use today to describe the warming of the planet, on the ground, in the air, and in the oceans. a new report from the u.n. international panel on climate change, the world's top climate research group, made up of hundreds of researchers around the world declared in its most confident assessment yet that the human influence on the climate system is clear and that it is extremely likely that human influence has been the
dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid 20th century. finds 95 to 100% chance that the warming of the planet is human caused. up to 90% chance given by the last report six years ago. john kerry called the report another wakeup call and said those that deny the science or choose excuses over action are playing with fire. ban ki-moon says, "the heat is on. now we must act." the question is will we? joining me is melissa harris-perry, host of melissa harris-perry, distinguished professor at penn state university michael mann, author of "the hockey stick and the climate wars." >> thanks. great to be with you. >> i want to start with you and ask if this report will that ma a difference in debate. a consensus believe humans are the primary cause of climate
change. so many people, particularly in one ideology refuse to believe it. will this report change that? >> lets hope. we knew enough to act on this problem two decades ago. ittc established back in their second assessment report in 1995 that there was already at that point a discernible human influence on the climate. all that happened in the intervening years is that the evidence has gotten stronger. we are already seeing negative impacts of those changes. in fact, in this report they go quite a bit further. not only is most of the warming due to us, but they are actually implicating that warming for the observed increase in sea level, the observed melting of ice around the world and many of the observed extreme weather events we've seen in recent years. >> yet, the opposition to the notion that human beings are at the root of climate change is strident. you yourself have written this. no misrepresentation or smear is to egregious for professional
climate change deniers. we will see misdirection, cherry picking, half truths and outright false hoods in the months ahead. don't be if you would by smoke and mirrors. the true take hoem message of the report is crystal clear, climate change is real and caused by humans and continues unabated. the ippc says we should have a carbon budget for humanity, set a limit on co2 different countries emit. if it's that strong, corporate-based, professional, what can be done other than putting it in black and white in a report to change the game and the calculus toward science. >> thanks. you quote from the commentary i wrote on live science yesterday. you're absolutely right. we certainly have enough evidence that it is time to act on this problem. in fact, arguably we've waited too long and committed ourselves to some fairly damaging changes in climate. the opposition, it's not coming
from the world of science. there isn't a legitimate scientific argument against the reality of human caused climate change. the threat that climate change represents. instead, as you allude to, very unfortunately corporate interests front groupings tied to the fossil fuel industry, paid advocates of the fossil fuel industry have done everything they can to confuse the public and policymakers about the reality of the problem. so unfortunately as a result of that, we have a congress right now that is controlled, at least in the house of representatives, by climate change deniers. the chair of the house science committee is a climate change denyer. what that leaves is the opportunity or executive actions we've seen by the president recently. more stringent rules of epa, coal power plant emissions. so hopefully. >> go ahead. finish your thought. hopefully what? >> so hopefully, you know, we will see a change in the
thinking within our congress. there is some sign that there are congressional republicans who do want to have a serious discussion about this problem. a former republican from south carolina he's heading up an effort to find free market-driven can have solutions to climate change. lets have that worthy debate about policy but lets get passed this fake debate about whether it exists. >> michael mentions two of the components, corporate-driven piece, you had ideological. you almost have a religious disbelief on the right. >> i think i challenge that a little bit. on the one hand i think the professor is right. we have a big challenge with climate change, we agree it's happening and data is true. part of the challenge here is the notion we can't get passed or immune to the notion of the data. climate change is something that
has to cross state boundaries, require collective action, extremely difficult to do in global policymaking. but i also think that part of the professor's point, in who's interest has to do with time line. may not be fossil fuel interest in the short-term. it may be serum in their interest to deny. even in the medium range, it becomes very much in the interest of conservatives, republicans, corporations to, in fact, agree these data are true and then to start to work to find out. i was thinking maybe what we need to do is read "lorax" instead of green eggs and ham from the senate floor. >> how does that play in the state of louisiana, the fundamental interest in jobs, economic growth is tied to the industry harming the climate. >> it's a short-term, long-term problem again. on the one hand we're deeply tied to the petroleum interests. it matters. part of our ability to say we continue to have a reason to
exist as new orleans is because of the amount of oil that comes off our coast and into the rest of the country. on the other hand, of course, we saw with the bp oil spill as well as just the realities of climate change and what it does for our disappearing front lines against the hurricanes that we in the long-term have a deep need to change how we are, in fact, generating energy in this country. it's tough because we're a poor state. poor people are living the circumstances. we can't talk about 50 years out. we have to talk about how are we going to put food on our tables this week. that in short ferm means bowing to interests. >> you need jobs, americans want energy produced at home and yet this, climate change. penn state university professor michael mann, thank you very much. >> thank you. it's great to be with you. >> we're still monitoring the senate floor where they are holding a cloture vote on the senate funding bill. we'll bring you that as soon as it happens. okay ladies, whenever you're ready.
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>> translator: the not too distant future we'll be able to resolve and settle the nuclear issue step by step and to pave the way for iran's better relations with the west including expansion of economic ties, expansion of cultural ties. >> that was iran's president hassan rouhani with a tone for the west. he's played a hot and cold dance with the west and on several occasions tapped away from his moderate message. on tuesday iran avoid add meeting between president obama and rouhani saying it would be too complicated. they said they would never release their right to enrich nuclear and nuclear weapons. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] what's important to you?
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the senate is still voting on whether to end debate on the government funding bill. lets go to nbc capitol hill correspondent luke russert for the latest. luke, what's happening? >> joy, cloture has been reached. they have 60 votes. cloture is invoked to use parliamentary lingo here on capitol hill, which means they can now proceed to harry reid's plan of stripping the defunding of the president's health care law away from the government funding bill by simple majority vote. reading in between the lines, i counted 18 republican votes in opposition to this move. this is the move ted cruz rallied against saying if you voted to allow the debate to go forward on this you were voting for the president's health care law. 2016 who voted no, rand paul, ted cruz, marco rubio. interesting one at the end after the 60 votes rob portman, a centrist guy from ohio came out as no if you're reading between the tea leaves.
anyway moving forward the senate will have a final majority vote to strip out funding of obama care as it sits around here this measure. it goes back to the house a clean funding bill and we do not know what the house gop will do with that legislation, yoi. >> you mean would be running mate in 2016, whoever the presidential candidate vp rob portman, that could be it, part of the calculation. >> rob portman every since he came out in favor of same sex measure has been trying to stay with the right. very little room to do something moderate or compromise on any issue. >> guys, now we have a vote. a vote to allow the vote. next to strip out funding for obama care. you already have 18 votes against cloture, people not now scored as heritage action who voted for essentially the affordable care act. >> this was a victory for ted cruz. he didn't think he would win this contest. he thought he would draw attention to his issue. the character he reminds me of
the most is early newt gingrich, really smart, not as smart as he thinks he is, maybe a bit of a screw loose but playing an outside game in relation to the party and playing on c-span where people tuning in and seeing this guy as the only honest man in town standing up to his party. i think ted cruz finishes this episode not a loser but a national figure in a way he wasn't ba week ago. >> i agree with that because of two things, rand paul and marco rubio. each having been the potential savior of the republican party they seem to be chasing whatever ted cruz does. >> ted cruz had better play this doesn't completely explode, though. a lot of this could backfire. if the house shuts down the government or the house, you know, defaults on the debt, then a lot of people are going to remember he drove us there. while it might certainly help him with republicans and a poll out today says he's the leading
contender for president among republicans, that will eliminate him from going beyond that. >> so melissa, popular now with the base but now absolutely despised by republican establishment as somebody they want to take down. >> this has been the question since really at least 2010, certainly before that, at least 2010, whether or not what we're seeing in the growth of the tea party in this particular sort of ideological take we're seeing embodied in ted cruz, whether it's a realignment of the republican party. we've been talking earlier on the show today about the idea that now it is increasingly democrats who we see actually voting with business interests. republicans used to being with business interests, now with more populous ideology, a populous idea on this that's a minority but served well in midterm election cycle when you have a more narrow electorate. maybe it's the end of his
interest with the big republican party but that big republican party may be fracturing. this has been the question since 2010. will we see a realignment with democrats and moderate republicans becoming the parties of big business and sort of populous splinter group to the left and to the right. whether or not those end up changing the american party system. >> fracturing for the party, entertaining to us, disastrous for the party. luke russert, thanks, luke. also thanks to jacob and ryan and melissa. you can catch melissa saturday and sunday at 10:00 eastern. i'll see you at noon eastern joined by others. you can catch alex tonight at the alma show as she hosts here on msnbc. "andrea mitchell reports" is next.
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